What do you do when you and your spouse aren’t on the same page when it comes to your spiritual outlooks? Maybe you started your marriage on the same page, but now things have changed. Maybe you hoped your spouse would see things the way you do, but he never has. Julie Lyles Carr, host of The AllMomDoes Podcast, shares insights and encouragement for when it doesn’t feel like things are spiritually in sync with your spouse in the final episode of our Going Deeper in Your Faith Series.
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Julie [00:00:15] Hey there. I’m Julie Lyles Carr and you’re listening to the AllMomDoes podcast on the Purposely Podcast Network. We have been in a multi-episode series on growing in your spiritual life, growing in your spiritual walk. And I hope that you’ve had a chance to listen to several of these episodes. Be sure and go back and check out the ones that came previous to this one. We’ve covered a whole bunch of topics, all kinds of things from learning how to simplify your life and how that can enhance your spiritual walk to learning specific things about prayer and about certain disciplines and all sorts of stuff. So, go take a look back at some of those previous episodes. But today, I have a really interesting topic that I want to dive into, and I really think that this could be of help for you or for someone that you know and love. So, let’s dive in. I wanted to be really careful and cautious with this topic because it’s a big one. It’s a big one to tackle and there is a lot of heart and a lot of worry at times, a lot of fear, a lot of frustration. So let’s see if you can pick up on what we’re going to be talking about.
Julie [00:01:18] Now, my mom and dad, when they got married, they had an agreement. My mom was raised in one denomination. My dad was raised in a different denomination. And they agreed when they got married that they would go to what they called my mom’s church. And that’s where my brothers and I were going to be raised in that church. And that worked for a while. But then there came a point where it just didn’t work so well for them anymore. They felt like they weren’t on page spiritually anymore. And that’s what I want to talk about today is this place where maybe you don’t feel like you are spiritually on page with your spouse, or maybe you have friends who are walking through this kind of an issue where they feel like they’re at a certain place, they’re pursuing God in a certain way, they’re making certain strides, and that is not where their spouse is, and it’s creating a lot of challenge in the relationship.
Julie [00:02:18] So let’s dive in. Let’s talk about how this can happen. Now, In the years that I was in ministry, I would see this a lot. I’d have women come to me and say, “I don’t know what to do. I’m really frustrated.” And we would unpack in this way. I saw some women where they had always started out on different pages spiritually than their spouse. That was just part of the landscape. I had women who had married guys who didn’t really have any kind of spiritual walk at all. I also had women in my ministry who had started out with a guy much like my mom and dad, where maybe he went to one church, she went to another. They said they’d go to her church or she’d go to his church, whatever, but they had started out differently. I also knew couples that one of them had a faith walk and one of them really had no faith discipline whatsoever, had never really been exposed to it was not a priority for them. So sometimes you start out on different pages, sometimes you start out on the same page, but then you can get diverted. I have definitely had experience in my own life and with different people that sometimes you start out and it’s everybody’s on page, you’re going to the same church, you’re believing the same things, things are walking out the same way. And then some life goes by and some challenges go by and some disappointments happen. And maybe there are some situations where you have some church hurt or some different things go down. And now, one of you is no longer on the same page that you both were. Things have changed for one of you, and one of you is still sort of hanging out in the place where you’ve always been and thinking, “Wait a minute, where did you go?”.
Julie [00:03:56] I’ve also seen where agreements have been made that couples say, “okay, we’re going to respect each other where we are, and this is when the relationship starts. This is fine. This is what we have. And you’re doing your thing and I’m doing mine. And that’s all good.” But now, you want to be on the same page. I see this happen a lot when kids come into the equation where it was all sort of philosophical and didn’t matter. And then kids come in and now it matters a whole lot. Maybe you’ve grown in your faith, maybe since the beginning of your relationship with your spouse, you’re now in a place where your faith really means a lot to you? And yes, you used to have this agreement where you were both going to do your own things and leave each other alone about it. But now you feel a really strong sense of wanting them to be part of what you’ve experienced when it’s come to your walk with God. Or maybe it’s that you want to pull your partner into a new expression of your spiritual walk? Or maybe, maybe that’s what they’re wanting to do with you? They’re wanting to pull you in the direction they’re going. I’ve had friends where the wife was the one who was really driving a lot of the spiritual life within their couplehood. And then the husband just really got on fire for God and was heading headlong into a direction that the wife was going, “whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I don’t understand what all this is and what’s happening.” Sometimes that’ll happen that there’s a new expression in your life, a new intensity. Or there is for your spouse and where you’ve been walking along in a way that you’ve respected each other, maybe haven’t been exactly on page, but it’s all been fine. And now one of you has a new fervor or is experienced something that seems to be really revelatory and you’re wanting to pull the other one with you.
Julie [00:05:39] Well, what do you do then? Well, first of all, let’s talk about some things. When I say been on the same page spiritually or not being on the same page spiritually, what I’m kind of not talking about, okay?
Julie [00:05:54] Now I think we’ve seen over the last little bit, certainly have had a lot of people in my life talk about this. I have experienced it myself. That because things have been so diverse in all of the things we’ve experienced in the pandemic world, in politics, in social issues, all kinds of things, there are a lot of ways where we’ve taken those issues and we’ve equated it to spiritual relationship with God. Now, I’m not saying that your spirituality doesn’t inform the way you look at some of those things, but we can get that all confused and we can think, “Wow, my spouse and I are no longer on the same page spiritually because we don’t agree on things in the political social worlds anymore.” Well, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I want to point out something. There is a historic event that happened in the New Testament, and a lot of people refer to it as the incident at Antioch. And what this was, is Peter and Paul ended up coming to a loggerheads. They completely disagreed on a series of different issues. Now, one of the issues was Paul felt that Peter was avoiding going and having meals, going out to dinner with Gentiles, that he was showing a preference for the Jews. And so Paul called him out on that. And yet Peter’s the one who really had this amazing revelation that Jews and Gentiles should be together, that some of their eating habits and things like that shouldn’t maybe matter as much, had a vision about it. So it’s really hard to understand exactly what they were both so upset about with each other. But it escalated to the point that it was called the incident at Antioch. And Paul writes a lot about it, and Paul is really pretty blunt about some of it. He says some things. I’m like, “Oh, Paul, that is a little strong.”.
Julie [00:07:56] My point and all of it is they were seeing the world and how they were supposed to be operating within certain people groups very, very differently. But guess what? Spiritually, they both were seeking to follow God. Spiritually, they both believed that Jesus was the Son of God, that he was crucified, that he was raised on the third day. They actually were still on page spiritually, but their walks with God and their opinions and all of that, that created this diversion of how they were walking out some of the political and social issues of the day. And it created great conflict between the two of them.
Julie [00:08:35] So in many regards, we have to take a look at making sure that we’re not allowing all of that to become some really odd way that we’re wrapping it all in and making it spiritual. Now, again, you and your spouse may not believe the same things spiritually, but I’m asking you to do yourself a favor and rerack a little bit maybe how you’re looking at some of the differences you may be experiencing. All that to say, these topical issues, these current issues that we talk about, yes, our spiritual eyes may inform how we view those and how we act on those, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that we’re not on the same page spiritually. So make sure you distinguish between that when you’re thinking about your spouse, your spiritual life, and where you’re connected and where you’re feeling disconnected.
Julie [00:09:29] Another thing that I’ve seen crop up is people feeling like they’re off page because they have different denominational preferences. We have to be really careful and thoughtful in this because you may have a spouse who really feels connected to God, is seeking after God is practicing their spiritual disciplines, and they may feel most at home in their spiritual walk in a different style church than the one that you go to. And sometimes we can see different churches feel like they’ve got more of an edge in the spiritual world. They have a better ear for listening from God. They’re a little more informed, they’re a little more with it, they’re a little more on fire. And we can see all of that identification that some churches make about themselves being used to say, “Oh, now I’m not on page with this spouse of mine because that person isn’t as spiritual, isn’t as on fire, isn’t doing things the way that the denomination I go to does it.” And what’s dangerous about that is it can convince you that you are not experiencing the same points of connectedness when it comes to following God together. So when I’m talking about being on the same page, I’m not saying that you have to be going to the same denomination or have the same denominational preference in order to be spiritually on page with one another.
Julie [00:10:57] Now, another thing that I see rolled out and I see it rolled out even amongst Christian circles, is this idea of being unequally yoked. And of course, that’s an interesting verse because it’s not talking only about marriage, although for some reason we take that verse and we convert it into a commentary about who we should marry and not marry and where they should be in their faith. But what I have seen done with this verse is I’ve seen different groups, groups that profess to follow Christ, use it as a means to say, “Okay, you’re now part of our group, our little way of understanding God and following Jesus, and you’re married to someone who isn’t doing it the way that we’re doing it. Therefore, you are now unequally yoked and you should walk away from that spouse.”.
Julie [00:11:43] Now, I know that can sound a little extreme, but I’m telling you, within my own world, within the denomination I was raised in, there was an offshoot that arose and became really fast growing, and it had very intense discipleship type practices. It had a lot of people weighing in on different issues in congregants lives. I never was personally part of this offshoot, but that offshoot for sure, I saw it happen a few times, encouraged people who followed that offshoot to leave spouses who were remaining back in the more traditional denomination. That is not what I’m talking about. When we are talking about not spiritually being on the same page, there is not a right there to leave a spouse because now you feel unequally yoked. As a matter of fact. Peter talks extensively about, “Hey, if an unbelieving spouse, if you’re going to call someone like that, an unbelieving spouse, if they’re willing to stay with you, you stay with them. You’ve made a commitment before God. So let’s not roll out this unequally yoked trope in order to justify taking things and splitting things up and splitting families.”
Julie [00:12:55] I’ll tell you another thing that being on the same page isn’t. It’s not about if you have different lifestyle choices. For example, if you don’t want to homeschool and your spouse really feels like spiritually, I’m using air quotes, you should be homeschooling or certain choices you make about the entertainment that you’re part of or social events and what you choose to do with those social events. I’m not talking about those kinds of things where within the Word of God we have kind of a spread. I mean, Jesus is the one who went and ate with sinners. Jesus is the one who modeled going to some places that some people felt like you shouldn’t be going if you were a religious person. And so I want us to be really careful that we’re not saying, “oh, we’re not on page about homeschooling or about some of these lifestyle choices, therefore we’re not on page spiritually.” Those, again, can be two different things.
Julie [00:13:47] Here’s another thing, too. If you are in a position where you feel like you’re the one who’s chasing harder after God and your spouse isn’t, it doesn’t then make you the boss of them. It doesn’t make you the boss of your household. It doesn’t change their validity as a partner within your home. Ephesians 5:21 says, “submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ”. That willingness in relationship, even if you feel like your partner’s not keeping the same pace you are as you chase after God, there is still that call to be supple with one another, to respect one another, and all of that having to do with reverence for Christ.
Julie [00:14:30] I tell you another one that can be really tricky. I know that for myself sometimes I can get wrapped in this. It’s over spiritualizing your preference. I know did just step on a toe or two there? I know. You know, maybe it’s your preference to be at every single event that your church throws. Or maybe it’s your preference that you would go to this particular marriage conference done by this particular Christian super couple that you’re really following and you feel really drawn to. But we have to be so cautious to not over spiritualize things that may be our preferences or strong preferences. It’s not wrong to have preference. It’s not wrong to have strong preferences, but to try to cast over those preferences that there might be a spiritual superiority, we want to stay far, far back from that.
Julie [00:15:21] Now, here’s the flip side of that. I’ve also encountered couples where one of them is following heart after God. One is in a time of spirituality where that’s just not important to them. Maybe it never was. Maybe that’s how it’s been from the beginning of the relationship. But I’ve seen the partner who is the devout Christ follower begin to excuse sin as a way of letting their spouse take the lead in their home or in them trying to keep the peace. Things that they know in their spiritual walk have no business being part of their lifestyle. Whether that comes to things that you’re viewing or practices that you’re engaging in as part of your marriage. I want you to be really thoughtful about this.
Julie [00:16:07] Yes, we need to keep open arms to our spouse. We need to not be judging them. We need to not be walking in some kind of spiritual superiority. But there are some very specific things that if your spouse is wanting you to be part of that, go beyond the bounds of your marriage vows, that go beyond the vow and covenant you have with God about how you’re going to live before Him, we can’t excuse that sin as a place where we’re just trying to be more connected to our spouse. I don’t think there should be a million of these. Again, avoiding making our preferences spiritual things. But I also don’t want to see for us that we excuse sin as part of just being in this marriage. So let’s keep those things in mind when we talk about not being on the same spiritual page, what it is, what it isn’t.
Julie [00:17:05] Now, I have a few things that I’ve titled, “What to Don’t.” How do you like that? What to don’t do? And the first one is we don’t get to be our spouse’s Holy Spirit. If your spouse is not on the same page with you, if you feel like your spouse is going in a direction that you don’t understand, or they’ve been someone that you’ve been pursuing grace together and now they seem to be kind of meandering around, it doesn’t seem to be as important to them. Here’s the deal. You have not been appointed to try to push them back into relationship with God. You have not been appointed to be the one to try to drag them over the finish line. There was a relationship in my life with a couple who I loved dearly, and this was something the wife really struggled with. Her spouse was not someone who really had much of an interest for a long time in spiritual things, and she just could not stop trying to speak into that and to talk over him and to say the things and many of the things she had to say were truth. It’s not that. But she was just trying so hard to be the presence of the Holy Spirit in his life. And can I just tell you, it didn’t work. And here’s what’s beautiful, when we back up and we remember that this person has a relationship with God that is their business, not ours, it can be pretty amazing what God will do.
Julie [00:18:32] Which leads me to the second thing of what to don’t. You don’t have to agree with each other in order to have a marital culture of mutual respect. It doesn’t mean that you have to then change what you believe to align with what your spouse is doing. I love this verse from Proverbs 29:23, “A man’s pride will bring him low, but the humble in spirit will retain honor.” When we can walk in a sense of kindness and gentleness with someone that we don’t agree with, it leaves far more real estate in which for God to work than if we just start throwing tacks in the road. We start throwing up barricades, we start responding in anger when we can just walk in respect. It can be such a huge thing and that doesn’t mean you’re agreeing with them. We get this so twisted in our culture today, it doesn’t mean you’re agreeing with them. It does mean that you value them. You value them as a person who’s working on finding their own opinions, you value them as a person who is intelligent and is seeking you. That values them in so many ways.
Julie [00:19:41] Here’s another what to don’t. Number three, don’t confuse kindness and curiosity with condoning. I can remember having a conversation with someone who was really struggling with where her husband was in his spiritual walk, and her concern was that if she was kind to him, if she gave him a listening ear without all kinds of commentary, then it would come off like she was condoning what he was doing and condoning some of his positions. And I understand that concern, but it’s really not the same thing when we can listen to someone, to understand them, to understand where they’re coming from. All we’re doing is extending to them understanding, not necessarily our tacit agreement with the way that they see things. And let’s put this in here as a caveat, it also doesn’t mean that we have to say over and over, “Well, I don’t agree with that. Well, I don’t agree with that.” You know what? When someone knows you, they already know. You don’t have to keep reminding them. They know that this isn’t the way that you’re living your life. They know. Just calm down. Bring some curiosity. Show this person that they have enough worth in your life that you want to know who they are and where they stand. They don’t need your correction right now. They don’t need your commentary. What they do need is a listening ear to be understood. And again, it doesn’t mean you’re condoning their position. It simply means that you are showing them they have value and where they stand today is important to you.
Julie [00:21:20] It makes me think about the parable, the prodigal son. You know, the father does not try to talk the son out of all this stuff. This the son who wants to go and live and experience all the things and take in all of these different philosophies and ideas and lifestyles and on and on and on. He just lets them know, “Hey, I’m here whenever you want to come back. I’m here. I’m here to listen.” And that gives someone the ability you’re not throwing in their way. That in addition, if someone circles back and is saying, “you know, these are things I should have thought about, or man, I just didn’t consider this.” At least they’re not having to climb some kind of hurdle that you’ve created where they’re going to have to really eat their hat. So again, don’t confuse kindness and curiosity with condoning.
Julie [00:22:07] Here’s another big one, and then we’re going to move to the do’s. But here’s a one more what to don’t. Don’t romanticize what it would be like to have someone who is exactly whatever that may mean, exactly on the same page as you spiritually. I have to tell you, I have known couples who, when it came to every stitch of their theology, it looks like they completely lined up. They seem to agree on all the same things when it came to the way they saw the word of God, how they understood Christ relationship to us, all of that. They seem to be very, very, very on page. All the things. Excellent. And their marriage just didn’t work. It can be really easy to assume that when you think you’ve found someone who believes exactly like you, which again, even that is a bit of a warning. We are never exactly on the same page with anyone, even when we love them dearly. And we seem to have a lot of points in common. There can still be little things that we don’t exactly see the same way. But in this over romanticization, Oh, it would be so different if I could only be with someone who saw it exactly the way I see it. That is no guarantee for success. And I will tell you, I have seen people walk out of marriages where they didn’t think they were on the same page spiritually. They’ve justified it, that they’re going to now become partners with someone, a spouse, to someone that now we’re really on page spiritually. And that second marriage has not worked because core deep there were things that needed to be sorted and dealt with and places where people needed to be supple and humble and teachable. And they weren’t. So don’t add this other layer of complexity to the marriage you have today by romanticizing how quote unquote, better it would be if you were with someone who you thought you aligned with more closely spiritually. Just get that temptation out of your head.
Julie [00:24:14] Now, what DO we do? Well, first of all, I’m getting ready to just stomp on some toes again. But remember, I’m also doing it to myself. So don’t think that. Don’t think you’re the only one. Check your spiritual arrogance. Oh, I say it again. Check your spiritual arrogance. Ephesians 4:2 says, “With all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love…” It can be all too easy when you feel like you’re doing all the things that are emblematic of pursuing God and you are in relationship with someone who isn’t doing those things. To let a sense of arrogance and pride creep in. That sense of arrogance and pride. Like I I’m the more spiritually mature one. I’m the one who spends more time in the Bible. I’m the one who goes to more Bible studies. I’m the one who shows up to all the church events. Ergo, I must be the one who is more spiritual. Yikes. I see over and over again in the places where Jesus encounters people in the New Testament that a lot of the Pharisees and Sadducees, they were the ones go to all the stuff being super involved in all the spiritual culture, doing all the things right, all the trappings that were supposed to look so good. And over and over, Jesus keeps saying to them, “Uh, uh, you guys don’t understand it at all. This guy over here who never even heard of God, and then he met Me and he just fell to the ground and and realized he was a sinner. Like that person gets it more than those of you who are doing all the church stuff.” And when I’m reminded of that again, boy, it gives me a good check to go, Hmm. Wow. I need to check my spiritual arrogance.
Julie [00:25:59] Number two, What to do, Win without a word. 1 Peter 3:1-3 in the Message Bible says, “Be good wives to your husbands, responsive to their needs, their husbands who indifferent as they may be to any words about God, will be captivated by your life of holy beauty. What matters is not your outer appearance, the styling of your hair, the jewelry you wear, the kind of your clothes, but your inner disposition.”
Julie [00:26:24] Are you someone who’s easy to live with? Are you someone who’s kind? Are you someone who can shut up about some of the stuff that you’re wanting to just push, push, push spiritually and just let your life speak? Because let’s face it, if the person you’re living most closely to is watching you and you seem to be filled with anxiety and worry and frustration and anger and disappointment and all these things, why should they be open to following this faith thing that you’re talking about a lot? Let your faith bear fruit in your life. Let it bear fruit and let that fruit be the thing that your spouse notices first. And when I talk about fruit, it doesn’t have to be complicated. The fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Like, just do a little self audit. How many of those things do you think are showing up? More often than not. More often than the frustration. More often than some of the disagreements. How many of those fruit of the Spirit are showing up in your daily interactions with your spouse?
[00:27:36] Number three, get in front of a professional. I’m telling you, sometimes these issues are just a little too difficult to try to manage out on your own. And I really want to encourage you to get in front of someone. And I can hear you now going, “But Jules, my spouse is not going to want to go get in front of a pastor.” Then don’t go get in front of a pastor. Find someone, a professional, a counselor, someone who can respect both of your positions. Someone who’s not going to try to talk you out of your faith walk. But at the same time is going to listen. And someone who can help the two of you navigate this challenge in the relationship.
[00:28:12] Number four, work to find points of connection. Romans 12:18 says, “if possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with and wait for this word with all.” Not just with the people who see the world the way you do. Live peaceably with all. Find that thing that you and your spouse like to do. Keep going on those date nights. Go for the hike. Do the yard projects that you both enjoy. Make sure that you keep those points of connection really powerful and really strong with one another. Because I’m telling you, the enemy would love for you to think that because you’re not on the same page spiritually, you have no business any more, no point of connection, no thing that binds you together the way that it used to. Don’t fall for that lie. You still have places of connection. You have to search for them. Sometimes you have to make sure you’re investing on them. But they are there. Make sure you continue to live peaceably as far as it is up to you.
[00:29:12] And the number five on what to do, double down on your own spiritual disciplines without neglecting your spouse. Let me tell you what I’ve seen before. I’ve seen spouses. One, feels like they’re really still pursuing their spiritual walk. They feel like their spouse is not doing it in the same way. And so they go headlong into further and further and further commitment to their church. Now, I’m not saying you shouldn’t be involved in your church, but if you are gone all day Sunday and then again Sunday night, and then you’re gone Tuesday night at the Bible study, and then Wednesday night you’re at the prayer meeting, and then Thursday night you’re at the choir practice and then Friday you’re at the…Do you see my point? There comes a point at which when we confuse church activity for spiritual commitment and there is a difference, you can be in significant danger of avoiding your spouse, spiritualizing it, and creating neglect in your marriage. That is not God’s best for your relationship. Yes of course, make sure that in your disciplines before God, in your prayer time, in being in his Word, in making sure that you are staying filled with his presence. Please do all of that. But when we continue to volunteer for the next thing and the next thing and the next thing, and it’s pulling us further and further away from time with our spouse. That’s when we need to start hitting the brake and make sure we’re not using church as a way to avoid and justify not doing the hard work we need to do with our partner. That is so important.
[00:30:55] You know, God is not the job. If you’ve listened to me for a while, you’ve heard me say this. You know it’s something in my own life I’ve had to really work through and work out. The duties that we do, the work that we do before God, is it a component of our faith? Absolutely. But relationship with God is what He’s seeking from us first, not our performance for Him. Our faith is made evident by the things we’re involved in and the way that we love people, in the way that we care for each other. But it is not the same thing as that standing before God and letting Him show Himself to us His truth, letting him reveal who we are to Him. It’s different.
[00:31:39] So understand that part of the ministry in your life is to your spouse. Even if that spouse is not seeing things the way you do, even if this topic of spirituality is a point of contention or conflict right now between you and your spouse, your spouse still remains one of the great ministries in your life. Don’t neglect it. I hope that all of this encourages you, gives you some things to stand on. You know, my spouse and I, we’ve been married for a long time. We’ve had seasons that I would tell you we were in lockstep and we just agreed on practically everything. It felt like when it came to our spiritual lives. And we have also been through seasons where things have changed, where we haven’t seen things eye to eye, where we have disagreed and significantly disagreed on some things. And it’s tough. It can make you feel like you’re kind of out there alone. It can not feel too great, but it doesn’t mean that you stop. It doesn’t mean you stop loving that person. It doesn’t mean that you stop looking for points of connection. And it certainly doesn’t mean that you stop pursuing God in order to try to reduce conflict or disagreement in your marriage. It all continues to work together. It’s all an important part of continuing to grow in your spiritual life, even in the midst a challenge, even in the midst of seeing things differently. And I hope this has been of help.
[00:33:13] Well, hey, thank you so much for joining me for this series that we’ve had on growing in your spiritual life. And I hope that there are several episodes that really connected with you and really helped. I would love it if you would do me this favor, if you would share a particular episode that’s meant a lot to you, or if you would share an episode that you know would speak to someone right where they’re at with something they’re wrestling with or struggling with. That would be amazing. That is one of the biggest thank you’s that you can give to me and to our podcast team, because it does take a team to pull this off each and every week. So I would just love that. And while you’re doing that, make sure that you’re subscribe to the podcast, leave us a five star rating and review. That really helps. And all the way that the mystery of the algorithm works and helps to bring the podcast up so that more people can find it. So I really appreciate that. As always, we’ve got great show notes from our producer, Rebecca. She’s amazing. She puts together those show notes so that you can find all the stuff easily each week. And I just appreciate you so much being here with us, letting me walk with you on your journey as you continue to explore more of who God is to you, who you are to Him. Those things are so profound. They’re eternal, and they last. And so thank you for letting me be a fellow sojourner with you in that journey. And I’ll see you next time on the AllMomDoes podcast.